Blog Entry

Moving Jeter down not an option

Posted on: September 1, 2010 9:13 pm
 
Derek Jeter
Here's a startling observation, courtesy of Brian Costello of the New York Post: Derek Jeter and Mark Teixeira entered the day with the same batting average of .267. On June 6, Teixeira was at .211 and Jeter at .300.

The Yankees' shortstop is headed the wrong direction. He's batting .208 in the past 28 days and .251 since the All-Star break. His ground ball rate is up dramatically. He turned 36 in June and is in line for a big new contract after the season. Under those circumstances, even Jeter comes under the microscope.

Now, there's almost no chance Jeter doesn't doesn't finish his career as a Yankee. But whether this is a fluke off year or the start of an age-related dropoff, his role at the top of the order is inevitably is going to have to change.

Manager Joe Girardi says the time for that has not come.

"I don't really see it happening. We still think he's a top of the order guy," Girardi told reporters Wednesday. "Look at the runs he's scored. His average is down a little bit, but ... he's on pace to score 115 runs, which is not too bad for a leadoff guy. I just think people are so used to seeing him have such great years offensively that when you're having a little bit of a down year and you're older, people's eyebrows go up."

It's not as if Jeter, even at nearly 50 points below his career batting average, is a huge liability as a leadoff hitter. From the leadoff spot (which in 117 of 132 games has been Jeter), the Yankees lead the American League in runs (102) and RBI (60) and are fourth in OPS (.741) and on-base percentage (.351). Most teams would take that.

Brett Gardner might be a better option leading off, and if things get tight Girardi might have no choice but to eventually act on that. But Captain Clutch has earned enough benefit of the doubt that he'll get every chance to turn it around.

-- David Andriesen

For more baseball news, rumors and analysis, follow @cbssportsmlb on Twitter or subscribe to the RSS feed .

Category: MLB
Comments

Since: Dec 2, 2011
Posted on: December 11, 2011 5:12 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

Buyers broken different fabulous factors at this time there. I have done the best find up to the thing to consider and therefore located greatly men and women feature equivalent impression with your niche site.



Since: Jun 21, 2009
Posted on: September 10, 2010 4:48 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

You must not know baseball very well then if you think your so called "2/3" of a season is an indication of if a player is on the decline so bad he should retire.  I believe Chipper Jones hit about below .260 a few years back and then came back the next two years and finshed 2nd and 1st for the batting title.

And to say that Jeter is on par with Damon almost makes me think you are a Red Sox fan.

I guess Chone Figgins should retire too since he is having a bad year.

Jair Jurrjens isn't on par with what he did last year, I guess he's over the hill too.

Joe Mauer has lost his power this year so he might start thinking about retiring.

David Wright isn't having the year that he had hoped for batting under .300, I guess he should think about hanging them up as well.

A.J. Burnett is having one of the worst years of his career, I guess he's done too.

My point here is that players go through struggles.  Jeter is going through on this year.  If he comes out next year and hits below .275 and has an OBP of below .370 then come talk to me.  But "2/3" of a season isn't enough to tell whether or not a player is declining.
Gopack10, let me point out your logical fallacies-

Even if I were a Red Sox fan, it wouldn't prove or disprove my point. All I've done is cite stats which you can confirm yourself. Take a look at Damon this year and see how he's doing in comparsion to Jeter.

Arguing from exception doesn't disprove my point, either. Maybe we have in fact already seen the best of Chone Figgins, Jair Jurrjens, and AJ Burnett, it doesn't really matter because they aren't relevant to what Jeter has done. I could come up with as many if not more examples to counter yours, and they wouldn't be relevant, either.

What is the basis for Jeter's struggles? Wasn't he going through struggles other years, too, when he was doing well? What makes you think he consolidated all his struggles into this year?

A decline is a decline. How far down the hill do you have to roll before you acknowledge you are getting closer to the bottom than the top? Since I first posted this Jeter has 4 hits in 24 at-bats. Grounded into another double play. Denial is the first step that you have to get past before accepting something that you don't want to see.



Since: Jun 21, 2009
Posted on: September 10, 2010 4:32 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

Jeter is equivalent to JDamon? Stupid. I won't even look the numbers up because nobody with a shred of baseball knowledge would say that with a straight face. Jeter is as durable as they come, plays a tough position with any luck over the balance of the year will hit .280, with 110 runs, 13 jacks, 75 rbi and 17 stolen bases. Damon won't come close to any of those markers.

We shouldnt get caught up in comparing Jeter to Jeter. There isnt value in that when trying to determine Jeter's worth to the Yankees. Before we ship him off lets compare him to the other shortstops in baseball. His run scoring pace puts him in line to finish with the most runs of any shortstop in baseball. His homerun pace puts him in line to finish 11th. His rbi pace puts him in line to finish with the 6th most rbi of any shortstop. He will finish 10th in stolen bases and more than likely first or second in total base hits. Also, he will end up in the top 5 in extra base hits with an outstide chance to put up more extra base hits than he did last year.

So even if Jeter is lagging compared to his historical self he is still an incredibly useful shortstop at the MLB level. That and the fact that Jeter is having an off year...and I expect that he still has a couple of 200 hits seasons left in him.


What evidence you choose to ignore is your choice. If you want to pretend it's not 2010, okay by me. I think if you actually look at the stats though you will find Damon a lot closer to Jeter than you think. He's also played in basically the same number of games as Jeter since they came into the league together. There isn't a whole lot of difference in their career numbers, either, with the exception of batting average.

Also, if you want to pick players based on the back of their baseball card, and pay them league-high salaries, good luck. The Yankees can get away doing this, pretty much nobody else can afford to.

I noticed you didn't mention the stats that Jeter himself is most responsible for- batting average, on base and slugging percentage. Johnny Damon actually has better numbers this year in all those categories. Actually has more extra-base hits, too.

You know what's stupid, fantasyjunky? Making an argument calling someone stupid while acknowledging you didn't do your homework.



Since: Jul 23, 2010
Posted on: September 3, 2010 12:41 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

Jeter is equivalent to JDamon? Stupid. I won't even look the numbers up because nobody with a shred of baseball knowledge would say that with a straight face. Jeter is as durable as they come, plays a tough position with any luck over the balance of the year will hit .280, with 110 runs, 13 jacks, 75 rbi and 17 stolen bases. Damon won't come close to any of those markers.

We shouldnt get caught up in comparing Jeter to Jeter. There isnt value in that when trying to determine Jeter's worth to the Yankees. Before we ship him off lets compare him to the other shortstops in baseball. His run scoring pace puts him in line to finish with the most runs of any shortstop in baseball. His homerun pace puts him in line to finish 11th. His rbi pace puts him in line to finish with the 6th most rbi of any shortstop. He will finish 10th in stolen bases and more than likely first or second in total base hits. Also, he will end up in the top 5 in extra base hits with an outstide chance to put up more extra base hits than he did last year.

So even if Jeter is lagging compared to his historical self he is still an incredibly useful shortstop at the MLB level. That and the fact that Jeter is having an off year...and I expect that he still has a couple of 200 hits seasons left in him.



Since: Sep 19, 2008
Posted on: September 3, 2010 8:50 am
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

You must not know baseball very well then if you think your so called "2/3" of a season is an indication of if a player is on the decline so bad he should retire.  I believe Chipper Jones hit about below .260 a few years back and then came back the next two years and finshed 2nd and 1st for the batting title.

And to say that Jeter is on par with Damon almost makes me think you are a Red Sox fan.

I guess Chone Figgins should retire too since he is having a bad year.

Jair Jurrjens isn't on par with what he did last year, I guess he's over the hill too.

Joe Mauer has lost his power this year so he might start thinking about retiring.

David Wright isn't having the year that he had hoped for batting under .300, I guess he should think about hanging them up as well.

A.J. Burnett is having one of the worst years of his career, I guess he's done too.

My point here is that players go through struggles.  Jeter is going through on this year.  If he comes out next year and hits below .275 and has an OBP of below .370 then come talk to me.  But "2/3" of a season isn't enough to tell whether or not a player is declining.



Since: Jun 21, 2009
Posted on: September 2, 2010 4:45 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

I hope you aren't Jeter's spokesman, gopack10. Nice sense of humor though, with that last comment. You neglected to mention the Yankees have a winning percentage of 1.000 in all the games Jeter has played in this month.

He was hitting .274 at the All-Star break, not 'around .300'. Not awful, but considering that .334 last year and his career average, and considering where he was May 2 of this year, still not very good. If you actually look at the stats (rather than make excuses) you will see, including today's 1-3, he's hitting .250 since May 2, the last 4 months or 2/3 of a season.
There's no need to mention what Jeter did last year; that's history; it's now this year, 2010. I also see what Johnny Damon and Nick Swisher did last year, among others. There's no doubt the new Yankee Stadium helped boost a lot of players' power numbers, Jeter included.

I agree he's having a bad second half, it's just that he also had an ok first half. Two halves make a whole. Saying he's not on pace to hit into a career high double plays by 'that many' is the same thing as saying he will, so at least we agree on that.

You are right about him retiring, though; he wil probably will stick around to achieve some career goals like 3,000 hits. And the team will probably pay him some ridiculous sum way out of proportion to what he contributes at this point in his career; it's their money so what they do with it is their business, but to an objective baseball fan Jeter is now about on par with Johnny Damon.



Since: Sep 19, 2008
Posted on: September 2, 2010 4:03 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

He was still batting around .300 at the All-Star break.  He's always hit into a lot of double plays and he's not on pace to break his mark by that many.  He needs 6 over the last 30 games to break that number and doing the math he probably won't break that number which is 24 by the way.

He is a year removed from batting .334 with 18 home runs and an on base percentage of over .400.  He's having a bad second half otherwise his numbers would be fairly similar except for the fact that he's not taking as many walks as I've seen him take in the past.

To say that he might need to retire is ridiculous.  He's going to be less than 75 hits away from 3000 at season's end and who honestly retires after one bad second half (which could be turned around if he gets hot). 

He's was 1-3 with a run scored today and the Yankees won.  That's a .333 batting average if you are counting.  He was also hit by a pitch so his OBP is .500.



Since: Jun 21, 2009
Posted on: September 2, 2010 2:53 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

Geez, I thought I was giving the guy break. RBI and runs scored are not a very good indicator of how well Jeter is playing; they tell you that his teammates are doing all right, though. As I said, anybody hitting leadoff for the Yankees would score a lot of runs; put Gardner or Cano in that spot and they'd score more, that's all. AS I said, it probably doesn't matter; if the Yankees win 6-3 or 5-3, it's the same result.

His slugging percentage, on base average, and batting average are all at career lows. This started well before the All-Star break. He reaches fewer balls defensively per game than at any point in his career. That's more than a slump. He's on pace to ground into more double plays than any year in his career, and all this in the final year of his contract. Might be a good time to retire, especially if the Yankees win the title.



Since: Sep 19, 2008
Posted on: September 2, 2010 1:29 pm
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

Give the guy a break.  He's having a down offensive 2nd half.  This guy hit .334 last year and is on pace to have more RBI and Runs than he's had in the last 3 years.  Jeter's power numbers have always fluctuated and he is still walking a good bit (a tad down from last year) and he is on pace to get 175 hits which ain't half bad.  He has stolen 15 bases which is also good for a 36 year old who isn't known for his speed.

He will be fine.  He is in a slump.  Every player goes through them at some point in a career aside from Albert Pujols.



Since: Jun 21, 2009
Posted on: September 2, 2010 2:06 am
 

Moving Jeter down not an option

Not sure about Jeter hitting .251 since the All Star break, but he IS hitting .251 since May 2, 24 games into the season.

He hit .281 in May, .243 in June, .245 in July, and .239 in August. One day into September he is hitting .200 for the month. He's tied for 5th in the AL in grounding into double plays, with the speedsters Michael Cuddyer and Ty Wigginton, and even with ARod sidelined for many games, his total chances on defense are at a career low. Might not be a bad time to start thinking about moving Jeter to the outfield where he can finish his career as sort of a Johnny Damon-type player, only for about $15 million more per year.

Nothing against Jeter personally- he's always seemed like a good guy, and was a great hitter, one of the all-time great Yankees. But the signs are all there of a player in rapid decline.


The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or CBSSports.com